Curse

JR · Nov 25, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Really, really bad monks. Maybe.

DarkAynjil · Nov 25, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

That's... not really true at all. Teams with Martyr may not have much to worry about from Poison Arrow, but any other condition removal is really not up to the task of stopping a good poisoner. Poison is so easy for a ranger to put on enemies that single-target condition removal is just too slow and inefficient.

Actually, when I monk in CA and some ranger/necro poisons the whole team, I don't waste time trying to remove it from everyone, I just remove it from the person who seems to be taking the most damage, same as any other situation that occurs when one is monking. You don't try to heal everyone up to full health all the time - why would conditions be treated differently? If I have to choose between throwing my restore/mend/draw at a warrior who's blind or a guy who just got poisoned again at 3/4 health, the blind war gets it. So, you make a good point, but follow it with unsound logic. Efficiency of removal is not the case here, as the condition is easy to apply, like bleeding. Bleeding is another condition any good monk will ignore until the teammate is in danger. Other conditions simply have so much effect that they take priority as far as removal is concerned. The fact is that Poison on it's own is not that great - similar to bleeding (another DoT) it's simply degen. Only when PA is combined with more degen is it truly effective. One could make the same argument you have made for Conjure Phantasm.

sun is in us · Nov 25, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Really, really bad monks. Maybe.

And I have met more than a few.

JR · Nov 25, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Basing a build on the hope that you will only bump into bad monks is... a bit of a flaw, don't you think?

NatalieD · Nov 25, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

So, you make a good point, but follow it with unsound logic.

What unsound logic? The "good point" about Poison Arrow being more efficient than poison removal was the only thing I said!

In my experience as a monk, a ranger who's really intent on poisoning my team can make it something of a problem. Of course I don't try to remove poison as soon as I see the green bar, but after a while the degen does weaken people enough to require some healing, and that increases the overall strain on my time and energy, making the team more vulnerable.

Is it a good enough way of adding pressure to be worth the elite slot? I'm no ranger expert, but probably not. I was just saying it's not true that Mend Ailment makes Poison Arrow useless. (Although it does if you're half-assed about your poisoning like many PA users are. Against many rangers it does work to just remove the poison; they won't even bother to reapply it. But I assumed we were talking about competent PA users.)

Morty · Nov 25, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Wow, your totally wrong.

The elite is elite for a REASON, it is generally the key skill your character build is based around, and the most important one to get right.

Have you played this type of ranger? Just because a skill is elite doesnt mean you should worship it. In agree that in most cases it is very important to build around your elite, but I dont think that's the case here.

Quote:

it is generally the key skill

Even you seem to agree with me that there are cases in which the elite isnt the "key skill." I think, in this case, the damage buffs are more important than the elite.

Quote:

It really is this simple:

Both spread poison.
Both take one skill slot.
One is elite, one isn't.

A bit of a no-brainer really.

So now you are saying that spreading poison is the best way to do damage to a single target? I'm not following you. Please give me an example of a ranger build that uses Apply Poison to do more damage to a single target than RtW or kindle. (if the elite is more important than the prep, then you should have no problem)

Quote:

If you want damage as well... may i suggest power shot.

..you may, but I won't promise not to laugh...

Okay seriously though, power shot is neither a prep nor an elite, so I don't see why someone (who actually liked power shot) couldn't add it in and still have an elite/prep combo to think about.

JR · Nov 25, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morty

So now you are saying that spreading poison is the best way to do damage to a single target? I'm not following you. Please give me an example of a ranger build that uses Apply Poison to do more damage to a single target than RtW or kindle. (if the elite is more important than the prep, then you should have no problem)

I would really absolutely LOVE to know how you came to that conclusion from what I said...

Actually I don't really care...

Morty · Nov 25, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, by assuming that your statement was still on-topic (the topic is: what elite to use to do the most damage to a single target).

You said that it would be better to take apply poison than poison arrow. I responded by asking what elite you would use with apply poison to do a large amount of damage to a single target. I assumed you were aware that we were talking about ways of damaging a single target, with no help from other characters, doing high damage over a long period of time (not spike).

sun is in us · Nov 25, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Basing a build on the hope that you will only bump into bad monks is... a bit of a flaw, don't you think?

Yes. Seeking every advantge no matter how small it may be in PVP is just stupid. I will wait for your book "How to be Uber like me" when it hits bookshelves this next year. Of course no where do I say "I have tried to build this around Bad Monks...that is the key to the build". But you go on and assume again....course you know what that makes you.

I bow to your superior intellect. You sure dun shewed me.

rii · Nov 25, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Now class, today we're going to learn about sarcasm!

Does anyone know what sarcasm is? If so, you get two silver stars! If you give me an example, you get a big shiny gold star!

..........-.-

Edit: And no, i wasnt talking to you.

Edit Edit: Just to make absolutely clear I was being sarcastic about when i suggested power shot. Just in case the above statment contained too much complexity :/

LOL wtf bye.

Laurelin Goldtree · Nov 30, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morty

R/E:

Fire: 6
Beast: 3+1
Exp: 9+4
Wild: 11+1
Marks: 9+1

Dual Shot
Poison Arrow
Dist Shot
Tiger's Fury
Kindle Arrows
Conjure Flame
Troll Unguent
Res Sig

Just an idea....forget fire magic-use "lightning reflexes" to attack faster-it doesn't last as long but your other attributes will thank you for it

But, I love everything about Poison Arrow, really. I love the fact that I can poison someone without having to waste the time and energy on the prep and sacrifice my fire dmg (Ignite Arrows) for those precious seconds as well. Apply Poison has a distinct look-the monk is gonna know what happens when you do it-thus it'll be removed almost instantly-at least with PA you've got a chance of a couple of seconds of degen on there. And my number one pet peeve in the game is when my Apply Poison wears off RIGHT before they recover from it-I have to reapply it-instead of doing something useful.